Staatstrojaner gefährden die Demokratie. PEGA-Untersuchungsausschuss soll Moratorium für Staatstrojaner fordern. Wir veröffentlichen ein inoffizielles Transkript
Jeroen Lenaers :
Then we move to point three of our agenda, which is the presentation of the draft recommendations. We are kicking off one of the most important items for the term of our committee, I would say.
Of course, we have also seen that third country governments or other non-state actors in third countries are also using spyware to target persons within the European Union. As we know, there are suspicions of the Moroccan authorities, for example, targeting the French government, the French president, the Spanish prime minister, the Spanish minister of defence, etc., so that is another problem.
Then there are, I call for rules governing the trade in spyware, the various aspects of trade in spyware. I’ve already mentioned the need to very strictly apply the dual use regulation and to revisit the export licenses which have been granted already, but to also urgently investigate the exports which are taking place outside the legal framework laid down by the European Union.
Three, they have to explicitly commit to cooperate with Europol in the context of Article 6 of the Europol Regulation, which means that if Europol proposes to conduct a investigations, that Member States should accept that. And again, I think this is a condition that should be easily met. Then, I also think that we should reach out to our friends in the United States because I think, as I said, we cannot regulate what third countries are doing. But the combined market power and the combined political power of the European Union and the United States, I think would make a difference in the world.
And I agree that there will be two very important definitions. It’s moratorium and it is the definition of national security. As we experience different approaches and as we have heard already, it’s sometimes used not to get information or to give information. I want to ask our rapporteur more on the countries about the decision, why these countries come to account within the report.
However, and this will be one of our key points, there are certain forms of spyware that we really think should be banned, especially those that go back in time that allow institutions who use the spyware to go back in time, even before the date where the use of spyware was allowed. And those that really can modify data on the device. These, to our understanding, is absolutely not in line with the concept of proportionality underlying all our legal systems and all our assessments.
Then the scrutiny body, I already said that I think there should be a body that where also the European Parliament, but not just the European Parliament plays in a role that scrutinises how member states are using spyware and can also assess the appropriateness of the use of the spyware. And it can play a role in the question of, well, when should the moratorium be lifted or reinstated?
Then we also have to discuss this question of the bog of the international spyware economy, this trade going on. We had this from the Israeli group, how this happens, where the problems lie, and we have to drain this marsh of this trade in this. We have to look at the mentioned trade, but the commercial use and the exploits, that’s really important. I don’t know whether with this type of spyware, it’s even possible to actually get a grip on everything to avoid misuse thereof.
Surveillance of politicians or others conducted by the national information body for reasons of national security happened in every member state. So I would ask there to what extent our committee has the right to intervene in the interpretation of security in every member state. I’ve got certain hesitations there, but I’d like to hear from the other side as well so we can discuss it.
You know, everybody was followed. And this is, you know, has nothing to do, and then the government, mind you, did not deny the allegations. You know, the judge said that they were not, you know, having to do it. We don’t know who was following them, you know, and we still know that the some people who were followed by the national security services, including ministers, including the chief of staff of the of the armed forces. And, you know, nothing’s happening.
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